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Hermani

I miss you old FiveM

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I just started watching some old fivem vids from its glory days and this shit makes me miss it a lot. 

Especially my ferrari...

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On 10/22/2018 at 3:57 PM, Cobra★ said:

all FiveM is these days is grinding instead of RPing

they wanted to let us play 6 months to reach end stage.

6 months of grinding no RP

thats the reason it died tbf

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22 hours ago, Potter said:

they wanted to let us play 6 months to reach end stage.

6 months of grinding no RP

thats the reason it died tbf

Wasn't the intention at all.

The idea was to stop a brand new player coming on, getting transferred 5mil from a friend and then 5 mins in he's got a lambo.

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3 hours ago, Ollie said:

Wasn't the intention at all.

The idea was to stop a brand new player coming on, getting transferred 5mil from a friend and then 5 mins in he's got a lambo.

To be fair tough, if someone is rich enough to do that and wants to spend their hard earned cash on their friends I personally dont see an issue with that. But I do like that the skill system adds the possibility of having a more in depth end game for the active players. 
Altough having to play at least 6 months to reach that end game stage was a mistake and it seems as tough this has been realised at this point judging by Cryant's announcement. 
The problem with adding grind into this ga,e is that FiveM RP is generally not about grinding, at least not in the same manner as games like Destiny etc. 
People dont go onto FiveM RP servers to grind, they are looking for RP obviously, and this is something you dont get when everyone is just grinding trying to reach that lvl 100 to then start making rp gangs etc. When everyone is focused on leveling up as fast as possible nobody is going to make RP centered gangs/businesses because it is simply not efficient enough.
So with that estimate we would have to wait 6 months before any in depth rp and clearly that is not going to work out.

Now with hopefully the right changes en route i sincerely hope the player count starts to rise again, but with the hype factor basically evaporated some major steps would need to be taken just to get the neccesary amount of people on to see if the changes will work.

I am looking forward to seeing what happends to this server in the future as the future plans look very promising, but only time will tell.

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I don't see the issue if somebody wants to invite their friend to the server and enable them to roleplay from minute one. If somebody has the drive to get enough money to be able to recruit their friends then why should we inhibit that? If anything just make money harder to get. I'd rather have a server full of people who didn't work for their money roleplaying than an empty server because everybody was driven away by features they don't like. 

The problem as far as i'm aware last time was there was nothing to do end game, so instead of adding more endgame content and new features, you've locked away ALL mid-late game content (Fair enough cars no longer fall under this catagory) so people have to grind just to reach the same breaking point that they were at last time. Surely you can notice a trend in that the server was only populated for 4-5 days with the new XP system, as oppose to the much longer lifespan it had last time.

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5 hours ago, Ollie said:

Wasn't the intention at all.

The idea was to stop a brand new player coming on, getting transferred 5mil from a friend and then 5 mins in he's got a lambo.

I honestly understand the intention, but right now someone can come on and do exactly that through just stealing a car?

Yet with that, people are now forced into taking routes of making money that they might not want to do.

Edited by CaaaM_

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On 10/31/2018 at 1:18 PM, Hermani said:

To be fair tough, if someone is rich enough to do that and wants to spend their hard earned cash on their friends I personally dont see an issue with that. But I do like that the skill system adds the possibility of having a more in depth end game for the active players. 
Altough having to play at least 6 months to reach that end game stage was a mistake and it seems as tough this has been realised at this point judging by Cryant's announcement. 
The problem with adding grind into this ga,e is that FiveM RP is generally not about grinding, at least not in the same manner as games like Destiny etc. 
People dont go onto FiveM RP servers to grind, they are looking for RP obviously, and this is something you dont get when everyone is just grinding trying to reach that lvl 100 to then start making rp gangs etc. When everyone is focused on leveling up as fast as possible nobody is going to make RP centered gangs/businesses because it is simply not efficient enough.
So with that estimate we would have to wait 6 months before any in depth rp and clearly that is not going to work out.

Now with hopefully the right changes en route i sincerely hope the player count starts to rise again, but with the hype factor basically evaporated some major steps would need to be taken just to get the neccesary amount of people on to see if the changes will work.

I am looking forward to seeing what happends to this server in the future as the future plans look very promising, but only time will tell.

I completely disagree. I think its bullshit that somebody can come on and immediately have all of the end-game content. It just creates a circle jerk of a few people that never roleplay and just fight all the time. You can roleplay from day one with any loadout or vehicles, as proven by the XP system that blocked people from getting most guns on the first day. There was still good roleplay, people just don't want to put any effort in. There is helping a friend out and there is completely out-trumping someone who could have been working hard for days just because you have a rich friend.

As for the comment about 6 months, I'm not really sure where you got that from because we never defined a specific time on how long we wanted someone to 'complete' the game (which is actually impossible by the way). We didn't intend for it to be a grind, what we intended for was regular players to be able to have the full benefit of end game content after putting in the work for it, and that work not to be disrespected by someones mate who got given millions on his first login and has played less than 2 hours.

What people fail to understand is that the old system was literally the same, you still had to grind, you still had to do jobs, you still had to roleplay for limited resources but instead it was for money. All we did was switch it up so something else was the focus for once. 

The XP system was always going to be a pain to balance, just like the economy was always a pain to balance. It might seem bad right now but I could go back through countless posts about people bitching about the economy before, what's the difference now?

We are working on making the system benefit roleplay as well as continue to do what we intended for, which is something we simply did not have time to do before our ALPHA launch. 

On 10/31/2018 at 3:06 PM, Kaliber said:

I don't see the issue if somebody wants to invite their friend to the server and enable them to roleplay from minute one. If somebody has the drive to get enough money to be able to recruit their friends then why should we inhibit that? If anything just make money harder to get. I'd rather have a server full of people who didn't work for their money roleplaying than an empty server because everybody was driven away by features they don't like. 

The problem as far as i'm aware last time was there was nothing to do end game, so instead of adding more endgame content and new features, you've locked away ALL mid-late game content (Fair enough cars no longer fall under this catagory) so people have to grind just to reach the same breaking point that they were at last time. Surely you can notice a trend in that the server was only populated for 4-5 days with the new XP system, as oppose to the much longer lifespan it had last time.

1. I've already addressed point one. 

2. There was never anything to do end game on the previous server. All we have done is 'lock' this mid game content behind something other than money, so I wouldn't really call it locking. We are still working on end game content, which is a hard thing to do in the timeframe we had to release the ALPHA version of the server. The alpha launch was intended to be unfinished, which is why its called an alpha launch. The end game content that people are bitching about only one person actually ended up being a high enough level to reach anyway so can't possibly of missed out on it if you haven't played long enough. We do intend to make more end game things available, but this is an RP server, its down to you to be creative and willing to make good roleplay for the end game content. We can add in as many features for end game as you like, such as apartments, new cars, more jobs etc. but really none of that actually provides a new roleplay experience for players, it just gives rich people something else to buy. 

On 10/31/2018 at 3:14 PM, CaaaM_ said:

I honestly understand the intention, but right now someone can come on and do exactly that through just stealing a car?

Yet with that, people are now forced into taking routes of making money that they might not want to do.

The difference is that you can't put the car in your own garage or modify it, and even if you could it still wouldn't be your car so once you get pulled by the cops you can sat bye bye to that vehicle. 

Nobody is forced into routes of making money they might not want to do at all. You're given two paths, legal and illegal, which were the same two paths from before?

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23 minutes ago, Ollie said:

It just creates a circle jerk of a few people that never roleplay and just fight all the time. 

I've never seen something like this happen on a FiveM server with good RP guidelines and rules. If the roleplay standards are correctly laid out and are enforced properly this would never become a problem. This seems to just be relating to closely to ArmA. Surely forcing people to grind jobs they don't want to do that have no roleplay aspect doesn't do a great deal in terms of encouraging roleplay either?

25 minutes ago, Ollie said:

You can roleplay from day one with any loadout or vehicles, as proven by the XP system that blocked people from getting most guns on the first day. 

You CAN roleplay without anything, but people typically don't want to, they'd rather have a talking point to take to an RP hub and roleplay with other about, like a nice car for example, not spend 6 hours grinding to get a above average car and a pistol [Example]. The only thing that the XP system has proved is that players don't enjoy joining a roleplay server and having to roleplay with nothing or grind mindlessly to get somewhere and have some assets to form groups and roleplay with eachother. Spend a week in the shoes of a new player and see if you enjoy it because I can tell you 80% of the community didn't, hence why the server died after a few days.

29 minutes ago, Ollie said:

There was still good roleplay, people just don't want to put any effort in. There is helping a friend out and there is completely out-trumping someone who could have been working hard for days just because you have a rich friend.

Surely if somebody is willing to work hard enough to be able to fund a new friend joining the server then they've worked even harder than the people they'd be 'out-trumping' and deserve to be able to do so? Again if this is a problem a tighter economy would solve this.

 

31 minutes ago, Ollie said:

As for the comment about 6 months, I'm not really sure where you got that from because we never defined a specific time on how long we wanted someone to 'complete' the game (which is actually impossible by the way). 

On 10/29/2018 at 8:44 PM, Cryant said:

 In terms of the economy, we aimed to make it last at least 6 months till you achieved “end game” or Level 100 but with the knowledge that once you’ve achieved this that’s not the end with there being no level cap. 

 

33 minutes ago, Ollie said:

We didn't intend for it to be a grind, what we intended for was regular players to be able to have the full benefit of end game content after putting in the work for it, and that work not to be disrespected by someones mate who got given millions on his first login and has played less than 2 hours.

Again, tighten the economy and this wouldn't be a problem. And again if somebody has put in enough work to be able to fund a new player then you should'ne be preventing them from doing so, all this does is defeat any idea of a group effort by making everybody have to individually gain assets on their own. How would a roleplay gang work if the boss of the gang can't fund his troops?

35 minutes ago, Ollie said:

What people fail to understand is that the old system was literally the same, you still had to grind, you still had to do jobs, you still had to roleplay for limited resources but instead it was for money. All we did was switch it up so something else was the focus for once. 

What you fail to understand is that adding more restrictions isn't the answer. Fair enough you switched it up in an attempt to increase lifespan, but the changes you made havn't worked at all, and everybody is reflecting this, including the massive difference in the time that both versions of the server lasted. Adding more content is what people needed.

37 minutes ago, Ollie said:

The XP system was always going to be a pain to balance, just like the economy was always a pain to balance. It might seem bad right now but I could go back through countless posts about people bitching about the economy before, what's the difference now?

The difference now is that you havn't listened to the people 'bitching' and the server lost it's population almost instantly. The difference now is that it is no longer a roleplay server and instead feels far more similar to an MMO/RPG..

2 minutes ago, Ollie said:

2. There was never anything to do end game on the previous server. All we have done is 'lock' this mid game content behind something other than money, so I wouldn't really call it locking.

 

Certain assets now not only cost the same price in money as they used to, but often require a very high level to attain them, for example certain cars/weapons that players would have been able to aquire

with a set amount of money previously can no longer do so as they require a much higher level, this is exactly what locking away content is..

39 minutes ago, Ollie said:

 The alpha launch was intended to be unfinished, which is why its called an alpha launch. The end game content that people are bitching about only one person actually ended up being a high enough level to reach anyway so can't possibly of missed out on it if you haven't played long enough.

People are 'bitching' about the fact they can't get to the end game content without quitting their jobs and becoming full time FiveM grinders.. The one person who got their spend 2 weeks of constant grinding just to be able to buy the first supercar..

41 minutes ago, Ollie said:

We do intend to make more end game things available, but this is an RP server, its down to you to be creative and willing to make good roleplay for the end game content. We can add in as many features for end game as you like, such as apartments, new cars, more jobs etc. but really none of that actually provides a new roleplay experience for players, it just gives rich people something else to buy. 

Ofcourse it adds new roleplay experiences?! If players have apartments they can use their apartments as gang hideouts, have parties, take people there to do weapon deals or talk about relations. New cars allow a much wider range of what you will see players driving in, this creates talking points and thus creates roleplay scenarios and new experience. New jobs allow players to meet other they may not have met doing other jobs, it allows them to travel different parts of the map they may not have often visited and gives them more variety in how they want to make money. Why would you not want people that are rich to buy things, AGAIN if the economy was tight and somebody had worked for their money they should be able to buy more and do more in the end game, which was the problem with the last launch..

44 minutes ago, Ollie said:

The difference is that you can't put the car in your own garage or modify it, and even if you could it still wouldn't be your car so once you get pulled by the cops you can sat bye bye to that vehicle. 

You can steal a supercar AND modify it for pennies and instantly outclass 90% of vehicles on the road INCLUDING cop cars, once you get pulled over and lose it you can just go out and steal another and repeat the whole process??

46 minutes ago, Ollie said:

Nobody is forced into routes of making money they might not want to do at all. You're given two paths, legal and illegal, which were the same two paths from before?

Ofcourse they are, you HAVE to start doing pizza runs as all the other jobs are locked behind levels. Same with drugs, you HAVE to start with 1 drug and keep grinding it until you level up enough to unlock more. I'm starting to think you havn't play tested much yourself...

You seem to think that players are complaining about features just to annoy you or cause trouble, they're complaining because they aren't enjoying the features you've implemented. ALPHA stages are meant for testing and feedback, the server has been tested, feedback has been given but you seem hellbent on making a system players don't enjoy work.. The picture you've painted for yourself and how you want the server to be MAY look good on paper, but it hasn't worked in practice and you have to listen to people about this and work WITH the community to fix it..

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23 minutes ago, Kaliber said:

 

I've never seen something like this happen on a FiveM server with good RP guidelines and rules. If the roleplay standards are correctly laid out and are enforced properly this would never become a problem. This seems to just be relating to closely to ArmA. Surely forcing people to grind jobs they don't want to do that have no roleplay aspect doesn't do a great deal in terms of encouraging roleplay either?

You CAN roleplay without anything, but people typically don't want to, they'd rather have a talking point to take to an RP hub and roleplay with other about, like a nice car for example, not spend 6 hours grinding to get a above average car and a pistol [Example]. The only thing that the XP system has proved is that players don't enjoy joining a roleplay server and having to roleplay with nothing or grind mindlessly to get somewhere and have some assets to form groups and roleplay with eachother. Spend a week in the shoes of a new player and see if you enjoy it because I can tell you 80% of the community didn't, hence why the server died after a few days.

Surely if somebody is willing to work hard enough to be able to fund a new friend joining the server then they've worked even harder than the people they'd be 'out-trumping' and deserve to be able to do so? Again if this is a problem a tighter economy would solve this.

 

 

Again, tighten the economy and this wouldn't be a problem. And again if somebody has put in enough work to be able to fund a new player then you should'ne be preventing them from doing so, all this does is defeat any idea of a group effort by making everybody have to individually gain assets on their own. How would a roleplay gang work if the boss of the gang can't fund his troops?

What you fail to understand is that adding more restrictions isn't the answer. Fair enough you switched it up in an attempt to increase lifespan, but the changes you made havn't worked at all, and everybody is reflecting this, including the massive difference in the time that both versions of the server lasted. Adding more content is what people needed.

The difference now is that you havn't listened to the people 'bitching' and the server lost it's population almost instantly. The difference now is that it is no longer a roleplay server and instead feels far more similar to an MMO/RPG..

 

Certain assets now not only cost the same price in money as they used to, but often require a very high level to attain them, for example certain cars/weapons that players would have been able to aquire

with a set amount of money previously can no longer do so as they require a much higher level, this is exactly what locking away content is..

People are 'bitching' about the fact they can't get to the end game content without quitting their jobs and becoming full time FiveM grinders.. The one person who got their spend 2 weeks of constant grinding just to be able to buy the first supercar..

Ofcourse it adds new roleplay experiences?! If players have apartments they can use their apartments as gang hideouts, have parties, take people there to do weapon deals or talk about relations. New cars allow a much wider range of what you will see players driving in, this creates talking points and thus creates roleplay scenarios and new experience. New jobs allow players to meet other they may not have met doing other jobs, it allows them to travel different parts of the map they may not have often visited and gives them more variety in how they want to make money. Why would you not want people that are rich to buy things, AGAIN if the economy was tight and somebody had worked for their money they should be able to buy more and do more in the end game, which was the problem with the last launch..

You can steal a supercar AND modify it for pennies and instantly outclass 90% of vehicles on the road INCLUDING cop cars, once you get pulled over and lose it you can just go out and steal another and repeat the whole process??

Ofcourse they are, you HAVE to start doing pizza runs as all the other jobs are locked behind levels. Same with drugs, you HAVE to start with 1 drug and keep grinding it until you level up enough to unlock more. I'm starting to think you havn't play tested much yourself...

You seem to think that players are complaining about features just to annoy you or cause trouble, they're complaining because they aren't enjoying the features you've implemented. ALPHA stages are meant for testing and feedback, the server has been tested, feedback has been given but you seem hellbent on making a system players don't enjoy work.. The picture you've painted for yourself and how you want the server to be MAY look good on paper, but it hasn't worked in practice and you have to listen to people about this and work WITH the community to fix it..

1. It literally happened last time, we had the guidelines set out properly and still had issues. The jobs did create roleplay, it forced people to the same areas, the same pizza drops etc. which is better than being spawn killed by 100 gangs. As for the comments about Arma, I actually don't play Arma at all and have about an hour in total actually playing on the server so that's pretty irrelevant. 

2. We haven't added more restrictions we literally just changed the main restriction. We always knew that we needed more content, but like I've said before we simply didn't have enough time to implement every job and activity and reward that we actually wanted to. 

3. We have listened to the players, which is why XP got balanced every update and why we are re-thinking XP right now. I mean, you do know that GTA is a MMO game, and RPG stands for Role Playing Game yeah?

4. This whole "Tightening the economy" literally isn't comprehending anything I've said in my past posts. It's literally the same as balancing XP instead we are balancing money?

5. The fact they are the same or different to last time is literally irrelevant because of the way we re-balanced the economy. 

6. In reality, we have no idea what apartments would do because we've never added them to our server. As for the new cars and jobs, we've had all our jobs open before and it didn't improve roleplay at all. Adding more cars doesn't achieve that effect all, people either don't buy it at all because its not as good as vehicles that already exist or everyone buys it and its broken. Doesn't increase roleplay, its actually more likely to have a negative effect on the roleplay of police. As for factions, how is adding any of this "end game content" even relevant to them, they can't make benefits of any of it because they don't have an end game, as you seem to know all the answers enlighten me. 

7. We've had issues from our LS Customs script since launch which has mainly caused this problem, this should be resolved in the next update.

8. The reason you have to do the same job is because we haven't added enough jobs. We always knew this, but you wouldn't understand that its not as easy as just downloading the job from FiveM forums. You literally have the same two pathways as last time, expect this time you are forced to follow the most efficient pathway, boo hoo. As for regards to the job about play testing, its not my job to play test hun. 

9. I don't think players are trying to annoy me at all, I just think that some people don't actually comprehend decisions that were made properly. Some of that is partly our fault as we didn't properly explain XP on launch. My issue with some feedback is that people have this attitude that FiveM should be exactly like Altis life. If we wanted to make an Altis Life server we would have just worked on the one we already have. Players can't possibly know if they don't enjoy a system or not if they've literally only ever known one system, and don't give anything else a chance. Its the same reason why if you read the Daily Mail for 20 years you wouldn't enjoy reading The Guardian, its called the Cultivation Theory. 

Anyway I'm not going to respond on here again as we would just be going round in circles. If you want to speak to me regarding any of these points then anyone is more than welcome to message me on Teamspeak and I'll drag you in for a chat. 

 

 

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Not going to comment any more here aswell as i feel like i have said what i want to say, just for the record i got the 6 months from the official announcement Cryant made very recently, not something i just made up if that was how it came through.

additionaly i would like to state that if it has ever come across as if i was bitching, that has never been my intention. My intentions making these suggestions and starting these discussions has allways been to get as much feedback and opinions on how the server can get better. Wheter or not the development team wants to use this feedback is fully at your discretion, im just sharing my toughts.

Edited by Hermani

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13 hours ago, Ollie said:

1. It literally happened last time, we had the guidelines set out properly and still had issues. The jobs did create roleplay, it forced people to the same areas, the same pizza drops etc. which is better than being spawn killed by 100 gangs. As for the comments about Arma, I actually don't play Arma at all and have about an hour in total actually playing on the server so that's pretty irrelevant. 

If the guidelines were set out properly and it still went wrong, they weren't being enforced properly. People even being able to 'spawnkill' on FiveM is either down to poor rules or enforcement.

13 hours ago, Ollie said:

2. We haven't added more restrictions we literally just changed the main restriction. We always knew that we needed more content, but like I've said before we simply didn't have enough time to implement every job and activity and reward that we actually wanted to. 

You have, you now no longer only require money, but you ALSO require XP, which is an additional restriction.

13 hours ago, Ollie said:

3. We have listened to the players, which is why XP got balanced every update and why we are re-thinking XP right now. I mean, you do know that GTA is a MMO game

I do know that GTA is an MMO, but we are talking about FiveM, somebody could devote the same amount of time to GTA online and come out with infinitely more rewards. FiveM is a purely ROLEPLAYING platform, not meant to accommodate MMO mechanics and playstyles.. 

13 hours ago, Ollie said:

and RPG stands for Role Playing Game yeah?

Really?

13 hours ago, Ollie said:

4. This whole "Tightening the economy" literally isn't comprehending anything I've said in my past posts. It's literally the same as balancing XP instead we are balancing money?

It is different in that players cannot pool together XP to buy nice things like they can money, this removes the aspect of group gameplay and RP groups. How can a gang operate as a gang if they can't fund new gang members or shared gang assets. Balancing money is far more dynamic in terms of options instead of adding a brand new second barrier that limits 80% of content. I don't think you're comprehending that nobody likes the XP system as reflected by the player count.

13 hours ago, Ollie said:

6. In reality, we have no idea what apartments would do because we've never added them to our server. As for the new cars and jobs, we've had all our jobs open before and it didn't improve roleplay at all. Adding more cars doesn't achieve that effect all, people either don't buy it at all because its not as good as vehicles that already exist or everyone buys it and its broken. Doesn't increase roleplay, its actually more likely to have a negative effect on the roleplay of police.

You suggested these things I was only replying to what you'd suggested to be added, theres a huge amount more that could be added to increase end game benefit.

13 hours ago, Ollie said:

 As for factions, how is adding any of this "end game content" even relevant to them, they can't make benefits of any of it because they don't have an end game, as you seem to know all the answers enlighten me. 

It's VERY simple, adding end game content for civilians to gain access to gives players an incentive to PLAY the server. When they have this motivation to actually play the server it makes the server populated, and give the factions something to do other than sit on an empty server hoping somebody joins. I've never stated that the whitelisted factions need any changes or more content, ALL of my suggestions have been for content to be added/unlocked for civilians, so that us, the factions are actually able to play and roleplay with players that arent other faction members.

 

14 hours ago, Ollie said:

8. The reason you have to do the same job is because we haven't added enough jobs. We always knew this, but you wouldn't understand that its not as easy as just downloading the job from FiveM forums. 

Aren't you supposed to be the professional party in this debate? Not the one trying to be condescending to somebody you don't even know?

14 hours ago, Ollie said:

You literally have the same two pathways as last time, expect this time you are forced to follow the most efficient pathway, boo hoo. 

Except this time you've locked away most of them behind other mundane jobs people don't want to do, it may be the most efficient but people don't like it and want options when making their money.. "boo hoo", do you not realise this is the reason the server died within days? You act as if players didn't just leave straight away for other servers without this feature. Again, not what I would expect from a professional party..

 

14 hours ago, Ollie said:

As for regards to the job about play testing, its not my job to play test hun. 

If it's not your job to play test, and you don't play, then how can you tell players how the server plays like? How can you just assume what people want and what's wrong with the server? Just because you know how it's coded doesn't mean you know how the system feels to play, you're defending features of the server that you havn't even tested and experienced yourself, which if you had you'd realise that the complaints aren't just there for no reason, they're there because the system isn't inviting to new players..

 

14 hours ago, Ollie said:

My issue with some feedback is that people have this attitude that FiveM should be exactly like Altis life. If we wanted to make an Altis Life server we would have just worked on the one we already have.

All feedback is feedback, you shouldn't just be painting it all with the same brush because some people put forward feedback you don't agree with, from what I've seen the majority of feedback has been trying to make the FiveM server more like successful FiveM servers which shouldn't really be ignored at all.

 

14 hours ago, Ollie said:

 Players can't possibly know if they don't enjoy a system or not if they've literally only ever known one system, and don't give anything else a chance. Its the same reason why if you read the Daily Mail for 20 years you wouldn't enjoy reading The Guardian, its called the Cultivation Theory. 

How does this apply in any way? Players have shown they don't enjoy the system by leaving the server immediately? I'm sure most of the players that tried the server out when it launched had played plenty of other FiveM servers with different systems and enjoyed those, myself including, yet the system you have employed CLEARLY isn't one that people have enjoyed. People have tested your system, given it a chance and they didn't like it and you still want to try and make it work it seems..

 

14 hours ago, Ollie said:

Anyway I'm not going to respond on here again as we would just be going round in circles. If you want to speak to me regarding any of these points then anyone is more than welcome to message me on Teamspeak and I'll drag you in for a chat. 

So the one time we manage to get the attention of a dev for a debate about what is wrong with the server you're just going to dodge out of it as soon as somebody challenges what you're saying? Surely having a chat in your own private channel would go around in even more circles since it'd be verbal and people can interupt eachother and the same points would be brought up as would here? Except here they're documented and others are actually able to voice their opinions?

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Well this turned a bit sour didn't it... My opinion is that there was end game on the last server, it took me and friend a week of grinding constantly to get the most expensive hypercar. Once we had that and formed a large group we then bought a business. Creating jobs and lots of  RP. There ended up being rivalry between another mechanics yard that opened. We also had apartments on the last server, granted a little buggy but we had them none the less. My point is that new players and existing players saw what you could obtain from the very beginning. The businesses can also wash dirty money....if you make all drugs and robbery money "dirty" that means they would have to wash it with a business owner thus making people need to make relationships within the server. There was rarely any spawn killing on the last server it happened a handful of times. There was an issue with people not following the NLR but nothing was ever not dealt with. I also agree that if I want to give my friend every penny I've got to buy themselves something I should be able to do so. I know the xp block has been removed from cars now which i think is a good step forward. Many times we would get a bit bored and change characters using the vehicle shop as inspiration becoming a mod gang for example. There was also Cryant with his sons of odin gang.... People want to be able to do every mod they can to their car and love showing them off because at the end of the day its all we really can spend our money on and use for status. Considering how easy it is to smash your car up there should be a mechanic at least. I know that changes are planned with regards to the mechanics modding system and im sure there are many other changes that are going to be implemented, just giving my thoughts. 


WE ARE THE MODS WE ARE THE MODS :7_sweat_smile:

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1 hour ago, Kaliber said:

If the guidelines were set out properly and it still went wrong, they weren't being enforced properly. People even being able to 'spawnkill' on FiveM is either down to poor rules or enforcement.

You have, you now no longer only require money, but you ALSO require XP, which is an additional restriction.

I do know that GTA is an MMO, but we are talking about FiveM, somebody could devote the same amount of time to GTA online and come out with infinitely more rewards. FiveM is a purely ROLEPLAYING platform, not meant to accommodate MMO mechanics and playstyles.. 

Really?

It is different in that players cannot pool together XP to buy nice things like they can money, this removes the aspect of group gameplay and RP groups. How can a gang operate as a gang if they can't fund new gang members or shared gang assets. Balancing money is far more dynamic in terms of options instead of adding a brand new second barrier that limits 80% of content. I don't think you're comprehending that nobody likes the XP system as reflected by the player count.

You suggested these things I was only replying to what you'd suggested to be added, theres a huge amount more that could be added to increase end game benefit.

It's VERY simple, adding end game content for civilians to gain access to gives players an incentive to PLAY the server. When they have this motivation to actually play the server it makes the server populated, and give the factions something to do other than sit on an empty server hoping somebody joins. I've never stated that the whitelisted factions need any changes or more content, ALL of my suggestions have been for content to be added/unlocked for civilians, so that us, the factions are actually able to play and roleplay with players that arent other faction members.

 

Aren't you supposed to be the professional party in this debate? Not the one trying to be condescending to somebody you don't even know?

Except this time you've locked away most of them behind other mundane jobs people don't want to do, it may be the most efficient but people don't like it and want options when making their money.. "boo hoo", do you not realise this is the reason the server died within days? You act as if players didn't just leave straight away for other servers without this feature. Again, not what I would expect from a professional party..

 

If it's not your job to play test, and you don't play, then how can you tell players how the server plays like? How can you just assume what people want and what's wrong with the server? Just because you know how it's coded doesn't mean you know how the system feels to play, you're defending features of the server that you havn't even tested and experienced yourself, which if you had you'd realise that the complaints aren't just there for no reason, they're there because the system isn't inviting to new players..

 

All feedback is feedback, you shouldn't just be painting it all with the same brush because some people put forward feedback you don't agree with, from what I've seen the majority of feedback has been trying to make the FiveM server more like successful FiveM servers which shouldn't really be ignored at all.

 

How does this apply in any way? Players have shown they don't enjoy the system by leaving the server immediately? I'm sure most of the players that tried the server out when it launched had played plenty of other FiveM servers with different systems and enjoyed those, myself including, yet the system you have employed CLEARLY isn't one that people have enjoyed. People have tested your system, given it a chance and they didn't like it and you still want to try and make it work it seems..

 

So the one time we manage to get the attention of a dev for a debate about what is wrong with the server you're just going to dodge out of it as soon as somebody challenges what you're saying? Surely having a chat in your own private channel would go around in even more circles since it'd be verbal and people can interupt eachother and the same points would be brought up as would here? Except here they're documented and others are actually able to voice their opinions?

1. Totally agree, which is why we introduced said new features and re-structured the admin team. 

2. Money which you get at the exact same time as receiving XP, which still operates as before. Yes.

3. FiveM isn't just for roleplay.

4. Yep

5. This is the exact reason why we were going to introduce a proper gangs system with shared XP and funds. It doesn't remove all aspects of group roleplay or gangs at all, that is just a complete lie. As Sons of Odin, the gang you used as an example, literally still run perfectly fine.

6. Like what? I'm yet to see an actual suggestion for this end game content.

7. Sure end game content gives civs more to do. But civs have the most freedom of anyone playing the server. You can't just focus on one aspect of the playerbase. Organising this stuff isn't as easy as you think. 

8. I'm not supposed to be anything. I'm the main FiveM developer sure, but I'm also on a public forum where I'm debating my point of view on a topic and exercising my freedom of speech, take it as you wish.

9. I do realise the lack of jobs was an issue, which is why we are adding more jobs. Which we have said countless times, so your point is invalid. I don't see how me not reaching the expectations of someone "I don't know" has any relevance to this conversation, and certainly won't effect my actions. Perhaps you need to re-assess you're evaluation of me.

10. Of course its not my job to playtest. Play testing and testing are two completely separate things. I play plenty of FiveM, and I'm sure you can appreciate that maybe after spending hours working on something that I don't find it as enjoyable to then spend more time playing it every day of my life. I have tested and experienced it myself, and I was the first to say that the jobs were too grinding, before the server had even be released (which @fisher and @Cryant can vouch for), so that is a complete lie. I can tell players how the server plays like because I've played it, both servers, and I've also sat there and tested jobs, features, vehicles to levels that you would not imagine.

11. I'm not saying it isn't. What I am saying is that I personally don't tend to bother acting upon feedback that I feel is different to the direction that all 3 of us want to push FiveM. You're right, most of the feedback is good, and so is this conversation. I haven't tarred with the same brush at all. I would appreciate it if we actually stuck to the facts here to keep the conversation relevant.

12. Its applicable because quite frankly 90% of our original playerbase came from Altis Life. Who to be honest are a load of cry babies over everything they aren't used to. I'm never going to stop trying to make XP work for the server. What would be the point, we would just end up like last time...

13. First statement is invalid because I respond to most suggestion and bug threads and also spoke at the community board meeting livestream regarding FiveM. I'm not dodging at all, I simply have much better things to be spending my time on than writing out massive responses to someone that clearly can't comprehend what I am saying as I've repeated myself multiple times. The invitation was to anyone interested, if you're not interested then don't come?

xxx

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3 minutes ago, Ollie said:

2. Money which you get at the exact same time as receiving XP, which still operates as before. Yes.

Yes, you recieve them at the same rate, but the prices and xp requirements are not the same and so if you amast enough money for something you still need to grind to level up to get it.

5 minutes ago, Ollie said:

3. FiveM isn't just for roleplay.

Correct, but PhoenixRP is a roleplay community, and I'm sure the idea of this is to have their servers put roleplay before grinding?

6 minutes ago, Ollie said:

5. This is the exact reason why we were going to introduce a proper gangs system with shared XP and funds. It doesn't remove all aspects of group roleplay or gangs at all, that is just a complete lie. As Sons of Odin, the gang you used as an example, literally still run perfectly fine.

I havn't mention Sons of Odin as an example, but I'd like you to list some gangs that aren't admin based/ran that run perfectly fine.

7 minutes ago, Ollie said:

6. Like what? I'm yet to see an actual suggestion for this end game content.

Apartments sold by a player based estate agency,

An investment system ran by a player based bank with interest rates and savings,

Player owned businesses/RP hubs (Bars, Clubs, etc),

Whitelisted Mechanics used to tow cars, fix roadside breakdowns, manage RTC scenes,

12 minutes ago, Ollie said:

7. Sure end game content gives civs more to do. But civs have the most freedom of anyone playing the server. You can't just focus on one aspect of the playerbase. Organising this stuff isn't as easy as you think. 

Ofcourse you can, there is no member of the whitelisted factions that is complaining about what they get or how their whitelist works, the only people complaining are the civlian playerbase, which is the only part of the server that currently needs major reworks to revive itself.

14 minutes ago, Ollie said:

8. I'm not supposed to be anything. I'm the main FiveM developer sure, but I'm also on a public forum where I'm debating my point of view on a topic and exercising my freedom of speech, take it as you wish.

You're a board member of the community, you're one of the members that should be setting an example for the rest of the staff, unless you don't care the image you portray on new community member.

16 minutes ago, Ollie said:

9. I do realise the lack of jobs was an issue, which is why we are adding more jobs. Which we have said countless times, so your point is invalid. I don't see how me not reaching the expectations of someone "I don't know" has any relevance to this conversation, and certainly won't effect my actions. Perhaps you need to re-assess you're evaluation of me.

In none of my points have I tried to put forward the idea that there is a lack of jobs in general, I'm saying there is a lack of option when you begin, since you've locked all the jobs behind eachother. A new player joins a server and decides how they want to make their money by looking at the jobs available, when they join our server, they see that they are restricted to only join Pizza runs before they are high enough level to unlock the others, some of the might not want to do Pizza runs and would prefer fishing for example, they can't do this job until they've grinding through all the jobs they don't want to do. Jobs typically aren't enjoyable even if players do choose them, so why would somebody grind through a bunch of jobs they hate just to get to one that might be decent? Instead they've all just quit because it's not worth the grind.

19 minutes ago, Ollie said:

10. Of course its not my job to playtest. Play testing and testing are two completely separate things. I play plenty of FiveM, and I'm sure you can appreciate that maybe after spending hours working on something that I don't find it as enjoyable to then spend more time playing it every day of my life. I have tested and experienced it myself, and I was the first to say that the jobs were too grinding, before the server had even be released (which @fisher and @Cryant can vouch for), so that is a complete lie. I can tell players how the server plays like because I've played it, both servers, and I've also sat there and tested jobs, features, vehicles to levels that you would not imagine.

Fair enough you're not willing to play it everyday, that's fine, but the community that are playing it everyday are telling you what is wrong, that's the XP system, players do not enjoy it, just like you don't enjoy playing it everyday either. Wasn't really lying about anything either? From my personal experience I've never seen you play past the first few days, but I'll take your word on that subject.

29 minutes ago, Ollie said:

11. I'm not saying it isn't. What I am saying is that I personally don't tend to bother acting upon feedback that I feel is different to the direction that all 3 of us want to push FiveM. You're right, most of the feedback is good, and so is this conversation. I haven't tarred with the same brush at all. I would appreciate it if we actually stuck to the facts here to keep the conversation relevant.

From what I can tell the direction you 3 want the server to go in isn't the direction that the majority of players are willing to spend their free time on, you may have a good idea of what YOU want, but the playerbase may not want the same, the playercount reflects this. You have to remember you're building the server for the players, not for you 3.

 

31 minutes ago, Ollie said:

12. Its applicable because quite frankly 90% of our original playerbase came from Altis Life. Who to be honest are a load of cry babies over everything they aren't used to. I'm never going to stop trying to make XP work for the server. What would be the point, we would just end up like last time...

Again, painting them all with the same brush, I've come from an Altis background, albiet with a lot of FiveM experience too, and so have a bunch of my friends that play on here, just labelling us as cry babies just because we've come from a game isn't really the way forward. How would you know how they are anyway, you've only spent an hour on the Altis server?

34 minutes ago, Ollie said:

13. First statement is invalid because I respond to most suggestion and bug threads and also spoke at the community board meeting livestream regarding FiveM. I'm not dodging at all, I simply have much better things to be spending my time on than writing out massive responses to someone that clearly can't comprehend what I am saying as I've repeated myself multiple times. The invitation was to anyone interested, if you're not interested then don't come?

How am I not comprehending? I've taken what you've said into consideration and have adjusted my views accordingly, I, along with 99% of the community disagree with the vision you have for the server, and have reflected this through taking to the forums, and the majority not playing. Sure XP can work in certain aspects, but having it in the way you have now is not one of them, which is why everybody has stopped playing. 

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